Gen1 & Gen2 Wheel Interchangeability

[SimonP]

Hello All,

 

I'm new to the forum and have a quick question that I imagine members here have the knowledge to help! 

First though, I'd just like to say that as a brand new owner of an Alphie, I'm absolutely loving everything about the vehicle ...it's by far the best car I've ever had!

Anyhow, mine is a gen2 (Vellfire) and I'm thinking of changing the standard wheels, tyre size 215/65/16 as I don't much like the six spoke alloys, for some 17" alloys from a Gen1 Alph (standard Toyota wheels) with tyres 225/55/17. 

So, the question is, does anyone know of any reason why gen1 wheels would not be suitable on a gen2, or are they totally interchangeable?

 

Thanks in advance,

Simon.

[Rojie]

5 minutes ago, SimonP said:

Hello All,

 

I'm new to the forum and have a quick question that I imagine members here have the knowledge to help! 

First though, I'd just like to say that as a brand new owner of an Alphie, I'm absolutely loving everything about the vehicle ...it's by far the best car I've ever had!

Anyhow, mine is a gen2 (Vellfire) and I'm thinking of changing the standard wheels, tyre size 215/65/16 as I don't much like the six spoke alloys, for some 17" alloys from a Gen1 Alph (standard Toyota wheels) with tyres 225/55/17. 

So, the question is, does anyone know of any reason why gen1 wheels would not be suitable on a gen2, or are they totally interchangeable?

 

Thanks in advance,

Simon.

 

Hello Simon,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Check the wheel offsets.

[SimonP]

Thanks Rojie!

 

The offset is the one thing that I haven't yet confirmed, all other details seem to stack up to suggest there's no great difference in the wheels.

I've read various threads, with plenty of good and interesting info, but found nothing for this specific scenario.

Do you know how I can check the offset required for both vehicles? 

 

Cheers, 

Simon.

[SimonP]

So, from what I've been able to work out with the offset is that the outer edge of the gen1- 7" rim sits 5mm closer to the mounting surface on the brakes/hub than the 6.5" of the gen2.  Which doesn't sound a lot, but it would mean that with it being a wider tyre it would put the inner edge of the tyre about 15mm in from my current tyres. 

It's this significant?  I imagine not?

I suppose, to get it right, if it's important, I could add in spacers?

 

[Rojie]

Will they fit is a good site for working with wheel and tyre sizes.

 

Wheel offset is important.

If you change the offset from standard, you will be be moving the whole wheel inwards or outwards.

This will effect clearances within the wheel arches.

Increased tyre width will also effect the clearances.

 

You cannot measure tyre clearances within the wheel arch under dynamic conditions.

 

The main reason to keep offset the same is by changing it you will be changing the loading on the wheel bearings.

 

If you go non-standard on wheel size you should advise your insurance company as it is a modification.

 

You should be able to search for wheel offsets and stud sizes.

[smurf]

An issue you may come up against by fitting a 15mm spacer is whether there is enough thread available on the studs for the bolts to engage. 

 

Have you investigated other Toyota's of the same era? It is likely that compatible wheels were fitted to other big Toyota/Lexus cars of the same time as manufacturers love to standardise sizes, and the wheels might be plentiful if they were UK spec cars. 

[SimonP]

Thanks both,

Yes, all good points, there's a lot to consider really!

I would like to get the offset right whatever so I might just give it a miss with the gen1 wheels if I can't determine their offset, and keep an eye out for some genuine gen2 alloys, although I guess decent ones don't come up often? 🤷🏽‍♂️

Anyhow, I've learnt something here, so thanks again.

Simon.

[Rojie]

10 hours ago, SimonP said:

Thanks both,

Yes, all good points, there's a lot to consider really!

I would like to get the offset right whatever so I might just give it a miss with the gen1 wheels if I can't determine their offset, and keep an eye out for some genuine gen2 alloys, although I guess decent ones don't come up often? 🤷🏽‍♂️

Anyhow, I've learnt something here, so thanks again.

Simon.

 

The wheel offsets are:   206/65/16; 39mm. 6.5 J

                                         225/55/17; 45mm. 7 J

                                         P.C.D is 114.3 X 5 (hole)

 

these are Gen 1 dimensions.

I don't have Gen 2

 

[SimonP]

Hi Rojie,

 

Thanks for taking the time here!

 

I've found some good data on wheel-size.com and

It looks like my gen2 16" rims are 33mm offset (ET33) (I've yet to check but apparently the ET number (the offset) should be stamped on the rims somewhere) and as the 16s on gen 1 are 39mm it's not much different (6mm).

These wheels I'm looking at getting are ET45 and from the above website I noticed that standard 18" wheels on gen2s (with wider rims and tyres) also have an ET of 45.  I've worked out that this puts the outer side of the wheel basically in the same place in relation to the outer bodywork (wheel arch) as the other standard wheels of different sizes (with the extra width of the tyre and wheel, all on the inside, under the arch).

So, I'm now thinking that an offset of 45mm is fine for gen2s in terms of wheel bearings and space under the arch (above and behind the wheel), if thats what bigger wheels run at.

The addition of a 5mm spacer should put the outer rim edge of the new wheels within a mm of where the current ones are, and reduce the offset accordingly.  So that's good, the only thing I've got left to work out is, as Smurf pointed out, is there enough thread on the wheel bolts to safely accommodate a 5mm spacer (the people selling them seem to think so!)?

 

Anyhow, I'll ponder on that one a little longer and see what comes out!  Cheers again for your help and sorry for the long-winded wheel-tech ramble I've put you through!

Oh and btw, that willtheyfit site was invaluable in my deliberations, thanks 👍

 

Simon.

[Rojie]

49 minutes ago, SimonP said:

Hi Rojie,

 

Thanks for taking the time here!

 

I've found some good data on wheel-size.com and

It looks like my gen2 16" rims are 33mm offset (ET33) (I've yet to check but apparently the ET number (the offset) should be stamped on the rims somewhere) and as the 16s on gen 1 are 39mm it's not much different (6mm).

These wheels I'm looking at getting are ET45 and from the above website I noticed that standard 18" wheels on gen2s (with wider rims and tyres) also have an ET of 45.  I've worked out that this puts the outer side of the wheel basically in the same place in relation to the outer bodywork (wheel arch) as the other standard wheels of different sizes (with the extra width of the tyre and wheel, all on the inside, under the arch).

So, I'm now thinking that an offset of 45mm is fine for gen2s in terms of wheel bearings and space under the arch (above and behind the wheel), if thats what bigger wheels run at.

The addition of a 5mm spacer should put the outer rim edge of the new wheels within a mm of where the current ones are, and reduce the offset accordingly.  So that's good, the only thing I've got left to work out is, as Smurf pointed out, is there enough thread on the wheel bolts to safely accommodate a 5mm spacer (the people selling them seem to think so!)?

 

Anyhow, I'll ponder on that one a little longer and see what comes out!  Cheers again for your help and sorry for the long-winded wheel-tech ramble I've put you through!

Oh and btw, that willtheyfit site was invaluable in my deliberations, thanks 👍

 

Simon.

 

The Will They Fit website will do the calculations for you, including the new odometer speed error; which in these days of fancy roadside radar is good to know.

 

The website will also tell you how the ground clearance is effected, but will not tell you how the ride (comfort) will be effected if using lower profile tyres with reduced sidewall heights. A new set of wheels and tyres isn't cheap, so get it right first time ! Fancy wheels need security nuts too.

 

Think twice about fitting spacers. You will increase the loading on the wheel bearing and have less threads to take the correct torgue setting (about 80 foot pounds).

 

Finally, to state the obvious, the sales person won't be there when your wheels falls off !

Don't go too radical as your insurance salesperson may take the opportunity to hike your insurance premium.

[SimonP]

All noted, cheers!

 

Plus you realise how a brand new tyre and a worn tyre affect the odometer differently too!

 

If I do make the change I'll post some pics here👍