Oil usage

[Nigel Henry]

I have a Alphard 2003 and it runs fantastically well but when l start the vehicle from cold it shows white smoke for the first 2 minutes, l have filled up with oil twice within 4 weeks so it's obviously burning oil, so the first thought is piston rings which is a massive job which the local garages don't want to touch because it's an inport, this is going to be very expensive unless anyone can suggest anything else that may solve the problem .  Somebody mentioned that there could be a PCV valve that can get stuck open and suck oil out of the valve cover into the intake manifold as well so if anyone could offer advice it would be very much appreciated many thanks 👍😎.

[Rojie]

White smoke, or steam ?

Many engines emit steam while warming up; especially in the recent early morning weather.

 

Remove the oil filter cap. Does it have an emulsion of white / lightbrown colour ?

 

Oil normally burns blue, water 'burns' white.

 

Oil needed is 4 to 5 litres, from dry, including filter.

How much oil have you topped up in a month ?

 

Are you having to top up the radiator ?

 

So I'm thinking head gasket issue; but I hope not.

 

I don't know if this is a PCV problem; but if it is, it is not expensive.

Cuttothechase on youtube, or Ldrego in this Forum, has done a video on replacing the PCV valve (on the 3l I think).

 

Answers to the above should help other members suggest problems / solutions.

[Rojie]

10 hours ago, Rojie said:

White smoke, or steam ?

Many engines emit steam while warming up; especially in the recent early morning weather.

 

Remove the oil filter cap. Does it have an emulsion of white / lightbrown colour ?

 

Oil normally burns blue, water 'burns' white.

 

Oil needed is 4 to 5 litres, from dry, including filter.

How much oil have you topped up in a month ?

 

Are you having to top up the radiator ?

 

So I'm thinking head gasket issue; but I hope not.

 

I don't know if this is a PCV problem; but if it is, it is not expensive.

Cuttothechase on youtube, or Ldrego in this Forum, has done a video on replacing the PCV valve (on the 3l I think).

 

Answers to the above should help other members suggest problems / solutions.

 Sorry fellow members, I did not notice this was in the introductions section' so I moved it to a more appropriate place.

[Nigel Henry]

Thanks for all the help and advice l will certainly be looking at the PCV valve as the first option, is there a good contact for the Alphard parts in the UK this would be really helpful many thanks again 👍😎.

[Guest]

Hi. Happ new year. You don't mention if it's a 3lit or 2.4lit. The 2.4 Toyota engine did suffer from burning oil, something to do with the pistons as I recall. Try a Google search. Hopefully you would have solved you problem by now

[nov]

32 minutes ago, AlfAlphard said:

Hi. Happ new year. You don't mention if it's a 3lit or 2.4lit. The 2.4 Toyota engine did suffer from burning oil, something to do with the pistons as I recall. Try a Google search. Hopefully you would have solved you problem by now

 

Alphard engines are/were not affected by the oil burnout, this was the problem for US market only with the Toyota 2.4 engines manufactured in US.

 

All Alphard engines are manufacturer in Japan.

[Rojie]

Hi nigel,

 

We still don't know what engine you have !

 

V6 or 4cylinder ?

 

[The Flower Man]

I am just going to jump in hear as i have the same issue with my 2.4l mk2 which i have owned for only 6 weeks.

in that time i have covered 1000 miles and it has used one and a half liters of oil which in my book is excessive.

I have been under the car today to check that i am not loosing oil and the underside is completely clean .

It was the first time i felt sad about not finding a leak!

I realize the piston ring recall was for the American market due to the rings that were fitted ,blocking with carbon and getting jammed ,letting oil past.

There is no signs of head gasket problems. no usage of coolant at all. no overheating, slug in the oil, misfire on start up, over pressurized in the water system ect ect so in my case a pcv valve jammed open may well be the problem too.

Has anyone had this problem and resolved it by changing the pcv valve?

[nov]

Oil burnout could be due to the bad servicing in the past and/or wrong oil used.

 

Below video may explain a bit more on this topic

 

 

[The Flower Man]

Thanks for posting this.

yes oil changes are important but seem to be much more important on Toyota engines which is fine if you have had control of this in the first place. cleaning using oil cleaners ,i can see working or though the idea of it is not great for me.

The engine in mine has done 76,000 and is propper clean with all fluids new and no leaks at all. I cant see any reason that the previous owner would neglect oil changes but look after everything else

The recommended service intervals for the pcv valve is 30,000 ish and some makes recommend you change this with the plugs.

researching more it seems the pcv valve stuck open does indeed draw out engine oil and burn it. i need to rule this out.

Also i have to say that the clip is American and i don't know if there were differences in ring design in other Toyota models made in America? 

[Nigel Henry]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:23 PM, Rojie said:

Hi nigel,

 

We still don't know what engine you have !

 

V6 or 4cylinder ?

 

Hi Jojie hope your well, the Alphard is a V6 and the problem is still happening, I'm now trying to get the pcv valve but not able to get one yet so if anyone knows a good supplier that l could try that would be really helpful many thanks 👍😎.

[The Flower Man]

2 hours ago, Nigel Henry said:

Hi Jojie hope your well, the Alphard is a V6 and the problem is still happening, I'm now trying to get the pcv valve but not able to get one yet so if anyone knows a good supplier that l could try that would be really helpful many thanks 👍😎.

i am having the same problem but there is a lot of them on eBay. I dont know how you view this market place. best to find the uk supplier through ebay as well because it can save time looking.

If i find a place in my searches that supplies them i will give you a shout.👍

[Rojie]

Good Morning, Nigel and Flower,

 

My normal suggestion for part sis to try your local Toyota dealer or Toyota Direct.

 

There is a good chance that your dealer will be rather huffy about grey imports and won't be helpful; but they might.

My local dealer is very helpful.

 

The key problem is getting the correct part number.

ToyotaAlphardEPC.com is the place to look.

 

There is another website that uses the vehicle VIN as identified by Picasso.

I'll try and find that link for you both.

 

My own view on eBay is it is rather iffy.

I would not want to save a few pounds and risk my engine.

[Rojie]

Hi Guys,

 

Just to be clear on this.

 

I am not saying the problem is the PCV, just that it might be.

I believe they are not expensive.

 

Cuttothechase on Youtube, or Ldrego in this forum has made a video on Youtube about replacing a PCV.

You may derive some benefit from viewing it.

 

I sent you both a link to a parts database.

At least if you do use eBay you should have the correct part number.

 

Good Luck.

 

[Guest]

Hi guys. Just a thought. I had a Lexus RX 300 2003. Which I am led believe. Could you not go to a Lexus dealer a see if they could get one. Maybe the UK engine does not have this valve ? Just a thought.

[The Flower Man]

14 hours ago, Rojie said:

Hi Guys,

 

Just to be clear on this.

 

I am not saying the problem is the PCV, just that it might be.

I believe they are not expensive.

 

Cuttothechase on Youtube, or Ldrego in this forum has made a video on Youtube about replacing a PCV.

You may derive some benefit from viewing it.

 

I sent you both a link to a parts database.

At least if you do use eBay you should have the correct part number.

 

Good Luck.

 

Yes understood, like all these things, as it is quite a cheap part its a good thing to replace and rule out.

I removed the pcv valve from my 2.4 today. It is located on my engine ,screwed into the rocker cover (back left as you face the front of the car)

It has a rubber hose attached to it with a squeeze together retaining clip (cant remember the proper word)

you can remove the rubber hose by hand. The pcv valve its self is 22mm. you will need a 22mm deep socket to remove it.

It is in on thread locker but not done up tight as this is an aluminum rocker cover so go easy when you tighten it back up. 

i need to find the torque spec for this......

Rojie. thanks for that. very helpful as i have the first number but the second one is very difficult to read 

The first number i have on my pcv valve is 12204

12 hours ago, AlfAlphard said:

Hi guys. Just a thought. I had a Lexus RX 300 2003. Which I am led believe. Could you not go to a Lexus dealer a see if they could get one. Maybe the UK engine does not have this valve ? Just a thought.

This is worth a try as well if you have the 3.0l .

They all have these valves and i would put money on the chance that they share the same pcv valve for the same size engine across the model range, after all its the same basic engine by the look of things.

[The Flower Man]

A little update.

When i removed the pcv valve the end of it was a bit crusty, in want of a better word!

I cleaned it out with some carb cleaner and the spring and tapered valve arrangement is free moving and closed by the spring but not tightly.

As i don't have a good one to compare it with, i cant rule it out as i dont know how critical the spring pressure is.

I did notice a new thing the other day that i forgot to mention. once the engine auto choke has kicked out i have had a very slow tickover of about 450rpm.

I left it to tick over and the computer razed the rpm to the correct level.

I may be wrong but it seems like its running lean which must be an air leak ,because of it running fine with the auto choke kicked in ect. just came back from a 50 mile run and dropped into tesco on the way back. was in there 10 mins max so started her up on a warm engine. she started straight away but then dropped down to 450rpm (no auto choke) the computer pulled the revs up again and she drove normally.

A weak spring in the pcv could cause a weak mixture i suppose. i will go over the inlet ,air cleaner box ect and check for split hoses tomorrow.,

 

 

[The Flower Man]

Tick over problem solved!

The vent pipe to the pcv valve had cracks in the end of it. I have seen kits that do the two vent pipes and the pcv valve as a package.if your Alphard is getting on in age ,i would check these pipes for cracks if you have hunting or low tick over issues

for now i replaced the silly sprung wire clip with a wide jubilee clip. this has closed the cracks in the pipe and i have a steady tick over. in fact its now better than its ever been since i bought the car.

[Rojie]

8 hours ago, The Flower Man said:

Tick over problem solved!

The vent pipe to the pcv valve had cracks in the end of it. I have seen kits that do the two vent pipes and the pcv valve as a package.if your Alphard is getting on in age ,i would check these pipes for cracks if you have hunting or low tick over issues

for now i replaced the silly sprung wire clip with a wide jubilee clip. this has closed the cracks in the pipe and i have a steady tick over. in fact its now better than its ever been since i bought the car.

 

Happy ending. Good to hear. Thanks for sharing the solution.

[Nigel Henry]

Good evening guys hope your all well, this is just an update on the Alphard l have which is using alot of oil but also showing lots of smoke still coming out of the exhaust when the vehicle is first started. It still drives amazingly well with no issues but after being in three independent garages all doing different tests ;

1st Garage pcv valve all good.

2nd Garage checked the engine and also lifted the car up on ramps and noticed that there was alot of water coming out of the exhaust, l mentioned to him that l never really need to top up the coolant so this is a mystery to where this amount of water came from.

3rd Garage the vehicle was put on a diagnostics machine checking the pressure in the engine for cylinder head gasket also piston rings everything is showing that its ok.

The next thing I'm thinking of trying is to do an oil change .

Also someone has mentioned that it could possibly be the type of fuel because of when they did some changes last year, so maybe  l should try the more expensive one, l do welcome anyone's input and thoughts on this issue many thanks cheers 👍🏻🇺🇦😎.

[Rojie]

26 minutes ago, Nigel Henry said:

Good evening guys hope your all well, this is just an update on the Alphard l have which is using alot of oil but also showing lots of smoke still coming out of the exhaust when the vehicle is first started. It still drives amazingly well with no issues but after being in three independent garages all doing different tests ;

1st Garage pcv valve all good.

2nd Garage checked the engine and also lifted the car up on ramps and noticed that there was alot of water coming out of the exhaust, l mentioned to him that l never really need to top up the coolant so this is a mystery to where this amount of water came from.

3rd Garage the vehicle was put on a diagnostics machine checking the pressure in the engine for cylinder head gasket also piston rings everything is showing that its ok.

The next thing I'm thinking of trying is to do an oil change .

Also someone has mentioned that it could possibly be the type of fuel because of when they did some changes last year, so maybe  l should try the more expensive one, l do welcome anyone's input and thoughts on this issue many thanks cheers 👍🏻🇺🇦😎.

 

Hi Nigel,

 

Sorry to hear this problem still persists !

 

If the 'smoke' is white, and not blue (or darker) it is almost certainly steam.

Some exhaust systems seem to retain water, or moisture, in the pipework, probably overnight condensation.

(You haven't got any local mischief makers with a water pistol, squirting water into the tail pipe).

As the engine warms up, it boils off quite quickly.

The colder the temperature the more steam you will get as, of course, the engine is breathing air and any moisture therein.

 

I am not a mechanic, but if this white smoke does not persist after the engine is fully warm I would not worry about it.

If it does persist, or is present when starting a warm engine, I would start to worry about a head gasket.

However, the garage three result seems to confirm that a head gasket failure is not the problem.

Did garage three test all six cylinders for pressure ?

 

The new E10 fuel, I have read, can 'deposit' small amounts of water in the bottom of the petrol tank; but mainly when the vehicle is left for some period of time unused.

You could try E5 after running your tank quite low. I am not aware of how to rid any water from the tank!

 

Have you held your hand very close to the exhaust pipe outlet. BE CAREFUL.

What, if anything, gets deposited on your hand, or GLOVE.

 

These 3.0L engines are, I have read, very fussy about their oil, otherwise gelling can occur.

Nov's video above deals with this. Frequent oil changes are necessary.

 

Did I ask you your current mileage ?

 

I can't see why you should not be changing your oil and filter.

You will need 4.7L of oil for both filter and sump.

 

Is your oil pressure OK.

Red light should be on before you start engine, and should go off immediately engine starts, and it should stay off; no flickering.

 

It is proving quite a mystery !

[Nigel Henry]

Hi Rojie many thanks for your comments and you knowledge about the Alphard, l will be asking a few more questions also do the hand test, change the fuel to E5 and also do the full oil change with filters. I will be doing each test over a period of time to see if there is a change with the smoke or steam so l will keep you posted on my findings many thanks again cheers 👍🇺🇦😎.

[Rojie]

50 minutes ago, Nigel Henry said:

Hi Rojie many thanks for your comments and you knowledge about the Alphard, l will be asking a few more questions also do the hand test, change the fuel to E5 and also do the full oil change with filters. I will be doing each test over a period of time to see if there is a change with the smoke or steam so l will keep you posted on my findings many thanks again cheers 👍🇺🇦😎.

 

How many miles has your Alphie done ?

[Nigel Henry]

Hi Rojie the Alphard has done 84,000 cheers 👍🇺🇦😎.

[Peterm69uk]

On 1/12/2022 at 4:09 PM, The Flower Man said:

I am just going to jump in hear as i have the same issue with my 2.4l mk2 which i have owned for only 6 weeks.

in that time i have covered 1000 miles and it has used one and a half liters of oil which in my book is excessive.

I have been under the car today to check that i am not loosing oil and the underside is completely clean .

It was the first time i felt sad about not finding a leak!

I realize the piston ring recall was for the American market due to the rings that were fitted ,blocking with carbon and getting jammed ,letting oil past.

There is no signs of head gasket problems. no usage of coolant at all. no overheating, slug in the oil, misfire on start up, over pressurized in the water system ect ect so in my case a pcv valve jammed open may well be the problem too.

Has anyone had this problem and resolved it by changing the pcv valve?

 

Hi Chris, did you resolve the oil usage by replacing the pcv valve in the end. I'm having the same issue, 2 litres used in 3200 miles, no leaks, engine runs smooth, no smoke from exhaust, covered 58000 miles, its a mystery.

Edited October 15 by Peterm69uk
Added info