Vellfire - Roof Load Rating (Dynamic)

[Alan Singer]

Good morning/Evening Fellow Vellfire/Alphard fans!

I am hoping that someone else in the English speaking world has tried to explore the possibility of putting a rooftop tent on their Vellfire.

I need to know what is the DYNAMIC ROOF LOAD rating for a 2008 Vellfire. I do not have a Vellfire owners manual in English, which would normally be the place one would look to find out the dynamic roof load rating

I am thinking of putting a hardshell rooftop tent on the roof of our 2008 Vellfire.

These tents can weigh anything between 65 kg and 99 kgs and even more.
As I understand the concept of roof load rating, every vehicle has a specification of what the heaviest mass is that can  be SAFELY attached to the roof whilst the car is in motion.

i understand this is referred to as the DYNAMIC roof load limit.

If the roof load rating is 100kg, it means the roof can support a total weight of 100kg and happily drive - corner and brake, with the roof and it's support being strong enough to withstand any damage from the momentum forces placed on the roof by extra weight (65kg to 90kg) which add significant additional stress to the supporting components of the roof during the cornering or braking of the vehicle.

I think of the degree of the rigidity that the roof has relative to the body of the car.

I am really hoping to be able to mount a 75Kg hardshell roof tent

Is there anyone who has experience in mounting a roof top tent ? Or anyone with any knowledge that could assist such as a confirmed source to categorically state the Toyota official dynamic roof load rating?





 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Alan Singer
correction

[Alan Singer]

Ok - Rant warning!!

After no answers to this post, I am thinking perhaps I have put this question in the incorrect place in the forum? Have I said something in the post to upset other forum members? Or is it that i am the only bunny that has ever thought to look into putting a roof-top tent on a Vellfire?

I must admit  have done a lot of enquiry in the background to try to find this information.
 I even found a young Japanese lady who worked in an Australian car dealer that specialises in the importing of Vellfires and Alphards. She spent about 30 minutes on the Japanese equivalent of google and could not find anything on-line that related in any way to roof load ratings or addition of roof-top tents.

Has anyone else on the forum ever even considered the idea of mounting a roof-top-tent (RTT)? Is it a stupid idea? Some would say yes due to the inherent issues with RTTs - climbing down a 2.2 m ladder in the middle of the night (possibly in rain) trying not to fall whilst making one's way to the facilities to answer the call of nature.

I see there have been 45 views of the post so I would love any comments -- even if they are to say it is a stupid idea!!

Since the young Japanese lady could not find anything online, I have decided to set up the Vellfire for sleeping in the cabin but I am still challenged by the intellectual frustration of not being able to get a number (the roof dynamic load rating) that one would have to think does exist and is known, at the very least in the Toyota design or testing departments.

End of rant.
 

[Chris.ac]

Sorry, its just that its not a thing in Japan, same with towing caravans, so JDM vehicles tend not to have these values available.

 

You *May* be able to find these values on Russian/China/UAE official export documents (Toyota made 20 series available in these regions), I would try looking at toyota official certification for external supplier parts, but it is difficult tracking it down, as most of this is from 2008.

[Alan Singer]

Thanks Chris,
yes, not a thing in Japan... 
With the roof loading and towing capability  questions, what is definitely becoming clear is that the answers are anything but clear!
Thanks for the suggestion to look at alternate export documents.
Much appreciate your response 

 

Alan

Edited December 8, 2022 by Alan Singer

[Chris.ac]

From what I recall, roof racks from Thule were discontinued once the 30 series was launched, but kits from japan and Australia are still available - I think the load rate was up to 75kg, so as long as the tent box is under that you should be fine, once stationary you can multiply by 5 for occupant weight.

In uk many are converted with pop top roofs, usually the 10 series.

 

Maybe another route is to find a similar chassis, the 10 series shared Granvia/hiace body type.

 

I have the datasheets for the safety crumple zones in the roof, but nothing about max loading unfortunately.

[kully]

The dynamic load rating is ... only 45Kg.
I got this from the Thule instruction manual for their fitting kit (linked here).

 

It'd be lovely if anyone has documentation that says the load rating is higher though!

[kully]

Don't worry about the lack of replies. This is a small forum (at the moment) and I for one only check in every couple of weeks.

I hope this will change as the community grows.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[Alan Singer]

50 minutes ago, kully said:

The dynamic load rating is ... only 45Kg.
I got this from the Thule instruction manual for their fitting kit (linked here).

 

It'd be lovely if anyone has documentation that says the load rating is higher though!

Hello Kully,

Thanks for the warm welcome and thanks for your input - Much appreciated.
A few interesting realisations and comments from your input.

Firstly, I have seen in all the documentation on roof-top tents that are over 40kg in weight that they are not suitable for mounting on ANY vehicle with CLAMP type mounts.
This is because the clamp type mounts (mounts that are secured by a bracket that is attached to the car by way of pressure from a screw assembly of some sort), are not able to support loads of greater than 45kg due to the limitation of the clamp type mounts themselves.

So whilst the Thule documentation is definitely useful, (and greatly apprecaited), it does not necessarily follow that the the dynamic load rating of the vehicle roof is only 45kgs. From what I can see, the 45kg load limit referred to in the brochure is  related to the load rating of the specific set of roof racks. 
It also does not follow that the VEHICLE roof load rating is necessarily MORE than 45kg - the brochure is silent on the roof loading of the actual roof. But it does suggest that the vehicle roof loading is AT LEAST 45kg. 🙂

The second thing is that there has not been any roof racks made for the Alphard or Vellfire, that I have seen that are fitted with anything other than a clamp type fitting. And it is clear also that the Alphard and Vellfire were never built to accomodate roofracks of any type - no attachment points, no factory rails - NADA - Roof racks were not ever considered as options during the vehicle design phase.
Having said that - a high end vehicle (an 8 seater ) one would have to think would have to have been designed to have a roof that was strong enough to withstand a severe "roll-over" which would mean a roof that is strong enough to withstand significant forces - but that is pure speculation.

What I have done, based upon advice from a very well respected and long established roof rack fitter in Melbourne, is I had some roof rails attached to the roof of my Vellfire with a series of 10 rivets on each rail, complete with small squares of tar water-proofing treatment, around where the rivets were fitted 
And to the rails, I have fitted Rhino roof racks which have a 75kg loading. (Roof rack load rating - not vehicle roof load rating!)
So what I understand is that IF I can confirm that the Vellfire roof load rating is 75kg or greater, I know that my roof racks are also capable of sustaining a 75kg total weight, and I can go ahead and safely put a 75kg weight on my roof.

 

BUT, despite having set up roof racks that are capable of supporting a gross weight of 75kg, that, until I know for sure that the VEHICLE roof load rating is more than 45kg, I will refrain from loading my racks to a combined (racks and payload) weight of more than 45kg.

 

What is also interesting from the Thule brochure is the fact that they highlight the effect of the airflow between the car and the load and caution that any speed over 80km will cause excessive forces on the roof rack system - forces that will exceed what is safe for a 45kg roof rack load limit.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by Alan Singer

[Alan Singer]

20 hours ago, Chris.ac said:

From what I recall, roof racks from Thule were discontinued once the 30 series was launched, but kits from japan and Australia are still available - I think the load rate was up to 75kg, so as long as the tent box is under that you should be fine, once stationary you can multiply by 5 for occupant weight.

In uk many are converted with pop top roofs, usually the 10 series.

 

Maybe another route is to find a similar chassis, the 10 series shared Granvia/hiace body type.

 

I have the datasheets for the safety crumple zones in the roof, but nothing about max loading unfortunately.

Thanks Chris for your reply and input,

I would be keen to see the datasheets you have for the crumple zones in the roof 

Any further info you can supply on the Thule kits rated at 75kg would be very useful - 
Thanks Chris  Please also see my previous answer to Kully as some of it could be relevant to your information as well.
 

[Rojie]

3 hours ago, kully said:

Don't worry about the lack of replies. This is a small forum (at the moment) and I for one only check in every couple of weeks.

I hope this will change as the community grows.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

Small Forum !

With thousands of Members !

[Alan Singer]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:53 AM, Chris.ac said:

From what I recall, roof racks from Thule were discontinued once the 30 series was launched, but kits from japan and Australia are still available - I think the load rate was up to 75kg, so as long as the tent box is under that you should be fine, once stationary you can multiply by 5 for occupant weight.

In uk many are converted with pop top roofs, usually the 10 series.

 

Maybe another route is to find a similar chassis, the 10 series shared Granvia/hiace body type.

 

I have the datasheets for the safety crumple zones in the roof, but nothing about max loading unfortunately.

Thanks Chris for your reply and input,

I would be keen to see the datasheets you have for the crumple zones in the roof 

Any further info you can supply on the Thule kits rated at 75kg would be very useful - 
Thanks Chris  Please also see my previous answer to Kully as some of it could be relevant to your information as well.
 

[Kirsty]

Hi Alan, we are currently looking at doing the exact same to our 2008 Vellfire. Did you find an answer to whether it is possible and safe to do so? 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻