Alphard Hybrid 2003 Non-Start. Hybrid system related P3000

[MarkATH10W]

Vehicle broke down on the side of the road a month ago without any engine management lights.  Now it won't start.  Dash lights looks OK, and ready light is on, but won't turn over. 2 shops have looked at the vehicle and they can't tell me what is wrong;  auxiliary battery replaced.

 

Im not sure that they are equipped to make precise diagnosis of the hybrid systems.   They state that a P3000 code is coming up now.

 

1) Have any of you experienced the same issue?  Where the ready light is on, but it appears that the vehicle won't attempt to start?

2) Beyond ODBII, is there a hybrid specific computer that needs to be scanned and read?

3) Im looking for some help as to what I should be looking at for a diagnosis?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

[Michael Brown]

Hello  Mark

 

I do not know anythink about OBD readers etc, but over here I found a specialst on car and boat electrics and he has worked on mine twice now. The first time he stripped down Alfie and replaced 2 hybrid cellls, tested it again, cost came to £532. The second time I broke down and Peter Holland had Alfie back, he ran his tester over and found the Inverter was Kapput. He had no spares and could not sourrce any. He looked into buying a whole new Inverter from Japan, The cost an eye watering £5,200. inc VAT and delivery. What do I do. I'd paid £9,500 for Alfie back in August last year. I took out a bank loan over 5yrs and Peter ordered it. Came in 2.5 weeks. The fitting and setting up another £320. I now should get at least 10 years trouble free motoring.

[MarkATH10W]

Thank you for your reply:

 

I am getting ready for the scenarios, if it can be properly diagnosed.

 

1) dead battery: (will techstream seems to be be able to see dead banks/cells of batteries according to threads in this forum?  Dr prius app is not compatible according to threads in this forum).

 

options:

• a) replacement from 3rd party battery manfuactoring is likely the way to go.
• b) cell level diagnosis and repair from specialty hybrid shop
• c) parts pull from japan... not going this route unless im desperate
• d) new battery from japan: $$$$$$

2) dead inverter:

a) purchase used from japan

https://autoparts.beforward.jp/detail/Cooling-Components/Other-A-C-Parts/PA83949062/

[Jeza]

Get Techstream to get all the relevant codes and descriptions. Surprised you have a READY light on as that signifies all is well with the HV battery system, normally on the first start the light is not on until the engine has started. 

P3000 code is a high level fault it just means there is something wrong with the battery or ECU etc. Techstream will dig deeper and pull up specific fault codes, Google Techstream there are cheap kits for sale and YouTube videos on how to run it on a laptop. 

[MarkATH10W]

thank you for your reply.  i forwarded the same question to the mechanic, as P3000 is very generic.    I can't justify replacing the entire battery without some more information if it doesn't actually fix it.

 

I found these posts informative:

 

https://www.torquenews.com/8113/toyota-prius-p3000-check-replacing-your-hv-battery

 

https://uk.alphardclub.com/forums/topic/3383-hybrid-battery-condition-application/#comment-14043

 

[Richard11]

On 8/14/2023 at 3:35 AM, MarkATH10W said:

Vehicle broke down on the side of the road a month ago without any engine management lights.  Now it won't start.  Dash lights looks OK, and ready light is on, but won't turn over. 2 shops have looked at the vehicle and they can't tell me what is wrong;  auxiliary battery replaced.

 

Im not sure that they are equipped to make precise diagnosis of the hybrid systems.   They state that a P3000 code is coming up now.

 

1) Have any of you experienced the same issue?  Where the ready light is on, but it appears that the vehicle won't attempt to start?

2) Beyond ODBII, is there a hybrid specific computer that needs to be scanned and read?

3) Im looking for some help as to what I should be looking at for a diagnosis?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

Check fuses and relays, and check for burnt out wiring. 

[MarkATH10W]

Thank you.

 

I need more information.  I just purchased a "washinglee" brand ODB2 lead to work with tech stream Verion 14.30.023

 

PaulE shows that it can grab full codes about the hybrid battery system in this thread here:

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by MarkATH10W

[Richard11]

I had all those lights and the vsc. It was a overheating problem. The inverter coolant pump was knackered so not cooling the inverter. New pump was about 200 quid from autojapanesespares on ebay. The vehicle would start and run for a few minutes then just cut out then not start until after about 10 minutes. You can check if the pump is working by opening the right radiator cap in front of engine. If the coolant rises to the top then falls then rises, then the pump is working. If it doesn't then your pumps knackered. They're a robust little pump that last but they are not the best and I think they all fail at some point. Worth checking... also my dad said that he was surprised that in my case the wiring had not burnt out or any fuses or relays gone as power was obviously going to the pump but being dead ended. When I hooked my old pump to a small 12 volt battery it sent sparks flying instantly, smoked, and the heat of the wires burnt my fingers. I guess on my vehicle a fuse or relay or just the engine computer saved this from starting a fire as the old pump when hooked up was very dodgy. Hope this helps. I changed the pump myself it was a very easy job if I can do it anyone can.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Richard11

[Rojie]

2 hours ago, Richard11 said:

I had all those lights and the vsc. It was a overheating problem. The inverter coolant pump was knackered so not cooling the inverter. New pump was about 200 quid from autojapanesespares on ebay. The vehicle would start and run for a few minutes then just cut out then not start until after about 10 minutes. You can check if the pump is working by opening the right radiator cap in front of engine. If the coolant rises to the top then falls then rises, then the pump is working. If it doesn't then your pumps knackered. They're a robust little pump that last but they are not the best and I think they all fail at some point. Worth checking... also my dad said that he was surprised that in my case the wiring had not burnt out or any fuses or relays gone as power was obviously going to the pump but being dead ended. When I hooked my old pump to a small 12 volt battery it sent sparks flying instantly, smoked, and the heat of the wires burnt my fingers. I guess on my vehicle a fuse or relay or just the engine computer saved this from starting a fire as the old pump when hooked up was very dodgy. Hope this helps. I changed the pump myself it was a very easy job if I can do it anyone can.

 

"Power being dead ended".

 

I am intrigued what that means ?

 

A short circuit will create large currents and blow fuses, and create heat (and could melt wiring) until the fuse blows.

Hence the use of fuses.

 

An open circuit does not blow fuses, or create heat.

However, if current is not flowing, voltages can rise and create other problems !

[Richard11]

Haha not sure myself haha,, shorting out. Basically when I took old pump off and connected it to a small like motorbike battery what was laying about, it started sparking smoking and then wires got hot and would have melted most likely causing a fire if the pump was connected to car. The alphard was driving on and off for weeks with this overheating problem because the old pump was "shorting out then haha. But the wires were all fine as we're all fuses and relays so the brain of the car must have recognised the pump shorting out problem and stopped sending any voltage to the pump otherwise there would have been a fire no doubt about it. The new pump once fitted worked a treat the car runs mint now. I'm not a mechanic but saved thousands on dodgy diagnosis simply by opening the radiator cap for the inverter pump and noticing the coolant wasn't being pumped. Once there is a fault in the hybrid side of things, it can be mega money and still get nowhere, best thing to do is recognise what the car is doing. This one was starting and then cutting out after 5 or ten minutes, Christmas tree dash then it would start after a prolonged length of time. At first I thought check battery cooling, I was sure it was a overheating problem. Turned out to be a poxy inverter coolant pump that you'd expect to see in a fishtank. Soon as I saw it knew it was that. If though, a hybrid alphard won't start, it's worth checking all parts fuses relays wires plugs to do with the inverter cooling pump. It's such a poxy part but definitely could lead to all sorts of failures. I could imagine a car not starting because a pump was out. Such as a fuel pump for example. You've got to look at what could go wrong, it's a Toyota so the engine itself should be bulletproof. The weakest link in any hybrid Alphard is the Inverter coolant pump. Just make sure you buy right one and not a cheap prius one.

[MarkATH10W]

7 hours ago, Richard11 said:

I had all those lights and the vsc. It was a overheating problem. The inverter coolant pump was knackered so not cooling the inverter. New pump was about 200 quid from autojapanesespares on ebay. The vehicle would start and run for a few minutes then just cut out then not start until after about 10 minutes. You can check if the pump is working by opening the right radiator cap in front of engine. If the coolant rises to the top then falls then rises, then the pump is working. If it doesn't then your pumps knackered. They're a robust little pump that last but they are not the best and I think they all fail at some point. Worth checking... also my dad said that he was surprised that in my case the wiring had not burnt out or any fuses or relays gone as power was obviously going to the pump but being dead ended. When I hooked my old pump to a small 12 volt battery it sent sparks flying instantly, smoked, and the heat of the wires burnt my fingers. I guess on my vehicle a fuse or relay or just the engine computer saved this from starting a fire as the old pump when hooked up was very dodgy. Hope this helps. I changed the pump myself it was a very easy job if I can do it anyone can.

 

4 hours ago, Rojie said:

 

"Power being dead ended".

 

I am intrigued what that means ?

 

A short circuit will create large currents and blow fuses, and create heat (and could melt wiring) until the fuse blows.

Hence the use of fuses.

 

An open circuit does not blow fuses, or create heat.

However, if current is not flowing, voltages can rise and create other problems !

 

Thank you for the Replies.  Were you able to pull any specific codes that hinted at what part of the hybrid system was failing?  In my case, I don't get any dash lights.  My ready light is on.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[MarkATH10W]

Follow up.  My engine is blown.  metal shards in oil. game over.

 

 

[Rojie]

Metals shards in engine oil.

 

How was the engine previously ?

 

Shards, so could be piston rings (lack of oil), big ends (lack of oil, or high mileage (which yours isn't) main bearings (high mileage, oil starvation, unlikely).

 

Rings would be my guess.

 

Big end failure is normally preceded by a 'knocking' sound.

Main bearing failure is normally preceded by a 'rumble' sound.

 

 

So, I guess, you were advised that an engine rebuild was not an economical solution

 

 

[Rojie]

I know of a case in the UK where lack of oil changes and oil filter changes caused the demise of a V6 engine.

 

After ONLY two months of ownership, in UK Law, you would have a claim against the seller if they were a business !

 

Perhaps Canadian Law offers similar redress.

[MarkATH10W]

• Engine oil was fresh full synthetic with new denso filter.
• Notable observations at time of import:
  • visible valves under the oil cap showed darkened / hardened build up; I have never seen this in any of my other previous toyota's (all 5-6 of them), which were generally remarkably clean.
  • one of the valve cover bolts was different in apperance; is that standard? or evidence of previous repair work?
  • fresh off the boat, the vehicle stuttered due to an extremely dirty MAF sensor.  problems went away
  • engine seemed to make unrecognizable sounds that I attributed to hybrid system when vehicle was idling? only occured sometimes.

[Rojie]

Any rattling noises from the engine; ?

Often associated with 'pinking'; pre-detonation caused by poor (low octane) fuel, incorrect timing, incorrect fuel/air mix (too rich, or more likely too lean) or too high a compression ratio with too low an octane can destroy an engine (hole in piston, shards in oil).

 

Did you import the vehicle personally ?

 

I don't know about about the cam cover bolts, but would expect them to be all the same for even torqueing.

 

MAF issues are not uncommon; but yours was fixed.

 

The darkened valve stems could be too rich a fuelling, but, imho, should not cause a major engine failure.

 

Again, so sorry to hear of your situation.