Hybrid Air Con Re-gassing advice please

[PaulE]

My air con has stopped blowing cold (in the hottest part of the year of course), have had to go back to the Eighties .

Local garage says the hybrid requires specialist gassing as they use a different oil to the standard vehicle.

Has anyone had experience of this and if so how did they get it fixed?

 

Also can anyone tell me where the gassing points are on the series 1 or a diagram in case a garage has an issue finding them and also what type of oil and refrigerant is used?

[Jeza]

I have only found one point under the bonnet, which also has a sight glass to check the level of refrigerant. I assume the temp control flap actuator is moving correctly and is not stuck on hot? Do the pipes on the compressor have a significant temp difference? I can not find anywhere in the manual how or where to connect the aircon test tool. Attached are some files which may be of some help.

Refrigerant is HFC-134a (R134a) amount 830+/- 30g. 

Extraction of refrigerant.pdf Refrigerant check.pdf

[PaulE]

many thanks for the info, I will try local Toyota and see if they can help.

[smurf]

Assuming it is the same as the Prius, and I can't see why not, the oil in the air con does need to be specifically suitable for hybrids with an electric a/c compressor. From what I have managed to Google, the oil Toyota specify is ND-11. I'd imagine a Toyota dealer should be able to regas with the correct oil in the refrigerant, but it may be worth checking around other garages in your local area as they are likely to be cheaper. If they don't do it, they will probably know someone who does.

[PaulE]

have booked it in to Toyota , will need a mortgage to pay their fees. I had assumed the oil might need to be non conductive as the engine and hybrid system coolant has to be.

[Rojie]

55 minutes ago, PaulE said:

have booked it in to Toyota , will need a mortgage to pay their fees. I had assumed the oil might need to be non conductive as the engine and hybrid system coolant has to be.

 

Please tell us about your success, and mortgage.

[PaulE]

Had a re-gas at local Toyota today £109.90, I took a punt on not paying for a full system investigation which was £149,99 not inc. the re-gas. They said re-gas was successful so no leak, no issues but coming home it was not cooling as expected (not a hot day today), as an afterthought I tried the heater on full and that appears not to be working so must be a deeper issue. Any ideas?? 

[smurf]

Is the heater flap moving? It is located on the driver side of the centre console down at feet level. 

[PaulE]

Hi, couldn't find the flap but ran the engine to hot and ran the blower to the footwell (tapped a few things too). I am now reasonably sure the heater appears to be working -there was some heat in the vent. I was expecting it to be much hotter than it appears when raising the temp to 27 degrees (heater doesn't normally work until raising it to 25 degrees). Will have another look tomorrow. Thanks for the info. The aircon is still a problem so will contact Toyota again.

[Rojie]

10 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Hi, couldn't find the flap but ran the engine to hot and ran the blower to the footwell (tapped a few things too). I am now reasonably sure the heater appears to be working -there was some heat in the vent. I was expecting it to be much hotter than it appears when raising the temp to 27 degrees (heater doesn't normally work until raising it to 25 degrees). Will have another look tomorrow. Thanks for the info. The aircon is still a problem so will contact Toyota again.

 

There is a flap valve that can fail to direct the cold air into the cabin.

 

It is covered in this forum somewhere.

 

Try searching.

 

[smurf]

If the heater doesn't work until you raise it to 25 Deg then it sounds like your heater flap isn't working. 

 

Have a look at this thread...

 

 

[PaulE]

I managed to find the actuator arm eventually after moving some trim but could only feel it not see due to a bracket. The arm does move when I set the temp to 25 or above and I did get heat- didn't realise the temp went so high so heater is working thankfully. At LO the arm does seem to tremble- is this a sign of wear? Thank you for the video - very well done. Thank you for everyone's help.

 

The main thing is - does this affect the air con or do I need to look further? I am assuming Toyota did do the re-gas job correctly!!

[Rojie]

6 minutes ago, PaulE said:

I managed to find the actuator arm eventually after moving some trim but could only feel it not see due to a bracket. The arm does move when I set the temp to 25 or above and I did get heat- didn't realise the temp went so high so heater is working thankfully. At LO the arm does seem to tremble- is this a sign of wear? Thank you for the video - very well done. Thank you for everyone's help.

 

The main thing is - does this affect the air con or do I need to look further? I am assuming Toyota did do the re-gas job correctly!!

 

I find it very difficult to believe that Toyota may not have re-gassed your van properly; but you did opt not to have the (pressurised) leak test.

[smurf]

It isn't possible to get a regas without a pressure test as it a requirement of how the machines work. The machine removes the gas and oil, puts the system under vacuum, and waits. If it loses vacuum it will not put gas back in. This is to stop the unnecessary release of refrigerants into the atmosphere. 

 

If you put the heater temp to max it should drive the flap all the way in one direction. If you then put the temp to LO, it should drive the flap completely in the other direction. If it is doing this, and you still don't get cold air on LO, there is something else going on. 

[PaulE]

Just had the van back from Toyota and the verdict is that the air con is faulty but they can't diagnose what it is as they have no technical info any more. They could spend an amount of my money trying but would be a shot in the dark. The good news is that the system is holding gas so is something else.

If any members have any ideas or know of any garages with some expertise with Alphard air con I would be grateful. I do remember that immediately before it went faulty the noise from the engine sounded like a diesel???

[Picasso]

hello paul the early hybrid 2002 to 2008 suffered from compressor problems 

[PaulE]

I suspect it might be that due to the noise it made before going wrong but how do I get it fixed is the big question. Des anyone know where it is, how to test it and how to fit it? I suspect the replacement will be an astronomical cost. Might leave it until next year as I have spent about a grand on repairs and service this year already and still have the sliding door lock to look at. The basic car and it's underpinnings are like new but expensive odd bits are wearing out.

[smurf]

Approx £600 from AliExpress. See the most recent posts on this thread - 

 

[BigNev]

Hi guys!

I have recently had my compressor go on my Renault Master van, and yes I heard that rattle over the diesel engine!

It should not be hard to diagnose that, you don't need any special info for that.

If the refrigerant gas pressure doesn't alter when the AC tries to start, it really is very likely the compressor!

On my previous cars and van, R134a gas, it's around 5 bar when NOT working and drops, to a figure I'm guessing at, of 2 bar when working, but will fluctuate as it kicks in and out.

[PaulE]

Looking at some Youtubes I wondered about trying the fuses and relays but I can't ID them except a 10amp fuse in the passenger footwell. None of the relay descriptions in the engine compartment fuse boxes shout out AC and I can't find a circuit diagram. Does anyone have any info on fuse and relay descriptions. I suspect being a hybrid Toyota use some  other method of naming them.

[Rojie]

2 hours ago, PaulE said:

Looking at some Youtubes I wondered about trying the fuses and relays but I can't ID them except a 10amp fuse in the passenger footwell. None of the relay descriptions in the engine compartment fuse boxes shout out AC and I can't find a circuit diagram. Does anyone have any info on fuse and relay descriptions. I suspect being a hybrid Toyota use some  other method of naming them.

 

Referring to my JPNZ Owners Manual, which does have a Hybrid section, there is no separate information regarding Hybrid fuse locations.

 

So, on the assumption that they are the same as in the non-hybrid version, the AC fuse is fuse 17, 10A.

Located in the passenger footwell behind the glovebox, and it will be a pig to get at.

 

I believe they are microfuses, so having one to haned will be most useful.

 

IF your audio is fully functional this fuse is unlikely to be the culprit as, according to my manual it is the same fuse.