Time for a new battery ?

[Big_Chris]

A bit of help for a less technical member please. Owned my 3.5 for two trouble free years now but two weeks ago I drove 100 miles, parked up for three days then on my return the engine wouldn’t start - dashboard lit, radio on etc but no crank.

 

Tried to troubleshoot a bit but in the end I got my booster pack out, fired up the battery and it started. Drove home no problem and then used the car for a very short trip the next day.

 

It’s since been sat unused for 8 days (which isn’t unusual) and now won’t crank again (dash lights etc). Booster pack was flat (rookie error !) so charging that before I start a re-start.

 

Now, I have a battery condition monitor installed and all seems normal (to me) until I crank ? See pic.

 

Is this just the case of needing a new battery to replace one that is 15 years old ? Or do you think I have an electrics issue causing the battery to run down ?

[Rojie]

47 minutes ago, Big_Chris said:

A bit of help for a less technical member please. Owned my 3.5 for two trouble free years now but two weeks ago I drove 100 miles, parked up for three days then on my return the engine wouldn’t start - dashboard lit, radio on etc but no crank.

 

Tried to troubleshoot a bit but in the end I got my booster pack out, fired up the battery and it started. Drove home no problem and then used the car for a very short trip the next day.

 

It’s since been sat unused for 8 days (which isn’t unusual) and now won’t crank again (dash lights etc). Booster pack was flat (rookie error !) so charging that before I start a re-start.

 

Now, I have a battery condition monitor installed and all seems normal (to me) until I crank ? See pic.

 

Is this just the case of needing a new battery to replace one that is 15 years old ? Or do you think I have an electrics issue causing the battery to run down ?

 

You may need a new battery.

 

Perhaps your alternator output needs testing.

[Big_Chris]

9 minutes ago, Rojie said:

 

You may need a new battery.

 

Perhaps your alternator output needs testing.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I assumed because I’d managed to drive 100 miles last time without a problem (and it working again the next day) that the alternator was probably ok.

 

in any case I’ve ordered a new battery and will see if that solves the problem.

 

cheers,

 

chris

[BigNev]

I would err on a battery too, voltage can be fine, but not the amps. And they're what crank the engine.

If it really is that old, it's done blooming well!!!

[Big_Chris]

56 minutes ago, BigNev said:

I would err on a battery too, voltage can be fine, but not the amps. And they're what crank the engine.

If it really is that old, it's done blooming well!!!

Thanks - new Bosch ordered. Boosted it (which I don’t want to do too often) and it worked fine.

 

No idea on age tbh, there’s a label on it but it’s very faded and VERY Japanese !

[Rojie]

 

I agree, it is more likely a battery issue.

Battery voltage can be very misleading unless measured under load.

It is amperes that count, and a less than fully charged battery will not delivery them.

 

I have a Cetek smart charger (there are other brands) which will test your battery and alternator and charge it if needed. (Possibly not on Hybrids).

Halfords and Kwik Fit will also test  battery / alternator and provide a print out.

 

The smart charger devices are about the same cost as a battery.

They can (but may not) recover a 'spent' battery too. Mine did.

 

They are, imho, a no lose investment as they can be used for years to ensure fully charged batteries.

[Big_Chris]

Coming back to this - have driven the car a few times this week without problem but had already ordered a new battery so just fitted it.

 

Hasn’t fixed the problem, can still use radio, AC etc but engine wont crank. The last few times I’d solved this by jump starting the car with my booster pack (but obviously don’t want to do this with a new battery).

 

Think I’m going to call an auto electrician and see what they can diagnose as I’m struggling to think what the problem could be ?

 

Cant be low ampage in battery as this is brand new 70AH battery.

Battery is connected as ancillary load is being fed for lights, radio etc.

 

is it the 100/120 main fuse ? But if so, why is this solved with a jump start ?

 

Any ideas welcome !

 

 

 

 

[BigNev]

When it doesn't crank, is there a "clunk" anywhere in the vicinity of the starter motor?

As in, is the starter solenoid pulling in but the motor isn't winding it over.

Or is it silent?

You may need an assistant for that.

[smurf]

Going by the graphs at the top, if you are seeing a similar pattern with the new battery it looks like you have a parasitic drain on the battery. It should be able to easily hold its charge for a week, and a jump pack solving the problem seems to rule out the starter motor being the issue. 

 

Have you got information from the condition monitor for your new battery?

[Big_Chris]

27 minutes ago, smurf said:

Going by the graphs at the top, if you are seeing a similar pattern with the new battery it looks like you have a parasitic drain on the battery. It should be able to easily hold its charge for a week, and a jump pack solving the problem seems to rule out the starter motor being the issue. 

 

Have you got information from the condition monitor for your new battery?

Thanks for replying - that’s interesting and I see what you mean now. That was my suspicion when I first had a flat battery, had one of my children left something (interior light etc) on which would drain it ? I checked and ruled that out.

What I think disproves this are two things:

 

On old battery, condition monitor said cranking power was down (which helped conclude I needed a new battery), and

 

yesterday I fitted the new battery and immediately tried to start engine - I’m assuming whatever was draining wouldn’t be able to kill a new battery below crank power level in less than 5 mins ?

 

it’s a good point and I should go and reconnect the condition monitor to new battery (which I lazily left on the workbench then found as I was tidying up but I was cold and hungry so left it rather than relift bonnet and unscrew a couple of bolts !).

[BigNev]

The battery condition is where I was heading.

If there's enough energy to click the solenoid, but not turn it over, then I too would suspect battery.

Unless the solenoid is sticking and the extra oomph of the booster overcomes this - clutching at straws there!!

In theory the new one should have been well charged. From personal experience I did not say fully charged.

But yes indeed it should have had enough to wind it over at least a little bit.

Edited Monday at 07:53 AM by BigNev

[Rojie]

Parasitic drain is a possibility.

 

I had a mysterious issue in my early days of ownership.

I have an earlier model with mood lighting.

 

Unless you check in the dark, it is very difficult to ensure the mood lights have not been left on their lowest setting.

 

What is the CCA rating of your new battery ?

 

I had also replaced my battery to no avail, there was/is nothing wrong with my old one.

I still have it as a spare and keep it fully charged.

I may need it sometimes in winter after long periods of no use and low temperatures.

[Big_Chris]

Ok, this is getting frustrating….

 

Just went out, added the battery meter to NEW battery, reads OK but car wouldn’t start (brake pedal fixed in place and push button not working).

 

I reach for my trusty NOCO booster pack, hook it up and it fires….

 

So whatever is stopping the cranking can be overcome with a boost… I doubt it’s the alternator as when this first happened I jump started, drove 100 miles home and it worked fine the next day. 
 

is it a fuse / solenoid ? Have messaged an auto electrician to come out and run a diagnostic but would be great if I could solve myself !

 

thanks for the all the help so far btw !

[Big_Chris]

3 hours ago, Rojie said:

Parasitic drain is a possibility.

 

I had a mysterious issue in my early days of ownership.

I have an earlier model with mood lighting.

 

Unless you check in the dark, it is very difficult to ensure the mood lights have not been left on their lowest setting.

 

What is the CCA rating of your new battery ?

 

I had also replaced my battery to no avail, there was/is nothing wrong with my old one.

I still have it as a spare and keep it fully charged.

I may need it sometimes in winter after long periods of no use and low temperatures.

Thanks for the response - CCA is 630. I make that three times the “CCA per inch” rule of thumb ?

 

tbh, I don’t have a problem having replaced the battery, suspect a new one was on the cards soon anyways. As you say, I’ll keep the existing as a spare.

[Rojie]

Clutching at straws here.

 

Try and have someone measure the voltage across the battery terminals before, and during, cranking.

 

When you say boost, do you mean boost or jump the battery leads in parallel ?

 

Try this without the 'boost' (it won't crank, but what is the voltage) and with the 'boost'.

 

IF you try to start the van with the 'old' battery in parallel with the new battery using jump leads make absolutely sure you connect up correctly.

[smurf]

Just a thought, but have you tried cleaning up the inside of the battery terminal clamps, and wherever the battery negative lead connects to the body? They could be oxidized and causing a volt drop when trying to provide cranking current. Putting the starter pack on could bypass where the problem connection is, and hence why you get an instant start. 

[Chris.ac]

22 hours ago, smurf said:

Just a thought, but have you tried cleaning up the inside of the battery terminal clamps, and wherever the battery negative lead connects to the body? They could be oxidized and causing a volt drop when trying to provide cranking current. Putting the starter pack on could bypass where the problem connection is, and hence why you get an instant start. 

I agree. Booster usually clamps to outside edge of connector, you might have a contaminate on the inner edge of the battery clamps