E10 vrs E5

[Mike Matts]

Hi folks

just done a rough test on mpg,filled up on e10 and returned 280 miles on a full tank ie 63 ltrs .Then using e5 same criteria got 320 miles this I believe saved me £8.30 on price comparison ie e10 £1.38,e5 £1.43. This was all done with ac on, driving normally keeping more or less to same routes, doing the same again to compare but with the benefits of e5 this would a no brainier. Any one done the same?..

[AlfAlphard]

Hi Mike. I have not carried out a full test like you. But I have noticed that I get less miles per gallon on e10 fuel.

[Rojie]

26 minutes ago, Mike Matts said:

Hi folks

just done a rough test on mpg ,filled up on e10 and returned 280 miles on a full tank ie 63 ltrs .Then using e5 same criteria got 320 miles this I believe saved me £8.30 on price comparison ie e10 £1.38,e5 £1.43. This was all done with ac on, driving normally keeping more or less to same routes, doing the same again to compare but with the benefits of e5 this would a no brainier. Any one done the same?..

 

A great bit of research. Thanks.

 

Apart from the difference in economy, have you any other observations regarding E5 versus E10 ?

Do you always use the same brand of fuel ?

I have just posted, in this Forum, an Esso information sheet which (claims) no Ethanol is present in the Esso Supreme Plus 99 fuel (in most, but not all regions of the UK).

 

[Rojie]

3 minutes ago, AlfAlphard said:

Hi Mike. I have not carried out a full test like you. But I have noticed that I get less miles per gallon on e10 fuel.

 

More Octane, more power, less use of petrol, perhaps.

So Mike and Alf both see benefits of economy using the E5 fuel. Interesting.

I am running E5 at the moment, but don't do enough miles for a realistic comparison.

[Mike Matts]

Always use Morrisons fuel as it is the cheapest in Redditch. Not really noticed if the v6 runs any better will take more notice this week or so, part of the week we carry 6 people and a Doberman try to keep this comparison.

[Rojie]

3 minutes ago, Mike Matts said:

Always use Morrisons fuel as it is the cheapest in Redditch. Not really noticed if the v6 runs any better will take more notice this week or so, part of the week we carry 6 people and a Doberman try to keep this comparison.

 

I use Morrisons fuel too, but have no idea which brand it is or which refinery it comes from.

[Mike Matts]

On 1/8/2022 at 4:01 PM, Mike Matts said:

Hi folks

just done a rough test on mpg,filled up on e10 and returned 280 miles on a full tank ie 63 ltrs .Then using e5 same criteria got 320 miles this I believe saved me £8.30 on price comparison ie e10 £1.38,e5 £1.43. This was all done with ac on, driving normally keeping more or less to same routes, doing the same again to compare but with the benefits of e5 this would a no brainier. Any one done the same?..

Hi folks

just completed a second full tank mpg test and returned 310 mls on 63lts of e5. Now running on e10 to compare will keep you posted.

[ThuMentaliss]

Great all this stuff regarding E10, excuse my cynicism but wasn't it a government initiative forced on service stations to supply this fuel because of lower emissions targets and was there not criticism from the people in the know that this fuel used long term may cause damage to high spec' engines such as the 3.0ltr engine in the Alphard

 sorry I will carry on seeking out 99 Octane quality fuel😎

[Rojie]

4 hours ago, ThuMentaliss said:

Great all this stuff regarding E10, excuse my cynicism but wasn't it a government initiative forced on service stations to supply this fuel because of lower emissions targets and was there not criticism from the people in the know that this fuel used long term may cause damage to high spec' engines such as the 3.0ltr engine in the Alphard

 sorry I will carry on seeking out 99 Octane quality fuel😎

 

Most (but not all) 99 Octane in the UK is E0; no ethanol ! According to Exxon (Esso) and Shell.

 

I previously posted an extract from an American scientific study into E10.

One of the engines used was a 3 litre Camry; a 1MZ FE, the engine fitted to Alphards; albeit and old engine from 1995(?)

 

That study showed there was no (observable) difference in engine wear.

 

Despite the recent findings above, re fuel economy, many of us run Super Unleaded E5 just in case.

[Mike Matts]

Hi folks

E10 vrs E5 again ran alphie v6 3.0ltr on e10, filled up 63ltrs returned max 270mls on this tank either my gauge is inaccurate but putting in the same amount o fuel from the same station, driving reasonably at all times I can only come to the conclusion that e5 is by far the best fuel to use for economy and mechanical piece of mind.

63 ltrs e10 = £1.37 = £86.31 

63 ltrs e5. =. £1.45 = £91.35 

[Geralt]

On 2/3/2022 at 10:03 AM, Mike Matts said:

Hi folks

E10 vrs E5 again ran alphie v6 3.0ltr on e10, filled up 63ltrs returned max 270mls on this tank either my gauge is inaccurate but putting in the same amount o fuel from the same station, driving reasonably at all times I can only come to the conclusion that e5 is by far the best fuel to use for economy and mechanical piece of mind.

63 ltrs e10 = £1.37 = £86.31 

63 ltrs e5. =. £1.45 = £91.35 

 

Thank you for that Mike. Will post my results when I've done enough driving.

 

I think I agree with your conclusion. A modest increase (2%) in the pence per mile cost of E5, is totally worth it given the peace of mind that there's no possibility of fuel system damage and likely better performance. Let's hope my 2.4L shows the same results.

 

	Cost for 63L	Miles driven	Pence per mile
E10	£86.31	270	32.0
E5	£91.35	280	32.6
E5 vs. E10 increase	6%	4%	2%

 

 

[wjvh]

If you’re really chasing mpg just drop the speed to ~60mph and hoy the cheapest fuel you can find in the tank.

[Geralt]

1 hour ago, wjvh said:

If you’re really chasing mpg just drop the speed to ~60mph and hoy the cheapest fuel you can find in the tank.

Thanks for the advice but if we were just chasing mpg we should buy the more expensive E5 fuel according Mike's results, not the cheapest fuel. This is in line with the theory that E5 is more energy dense.

 

Personally I'm trying to decide if E10 is worth it by balancing the higher extra cost of E5 against greater peace of mind and anecdotal reports of better performance with E5. For that I need to know the cost-per-mile figure of the two fuels, all other things being equal.

 

[Mike Matts]

On 2/10/2022 at 6:24 PM, Geralt said:

 

Thank you for that Mike. Will post my results when I've done enough driving.

 

I think I agree with your conclusion. A modest increase (2%) in the pence per mile cost of E5, is totally worth it given the peace of mind that there's no possibility of fuel system damage and likely better performance. Let's hope my 2.4L shows the same results.

 

	Cost for 63L	Miles driven	Pence per mile
E10	£86.31	270	32.0
E5	£91.35	280	32.6
E5 vs. E10 increase	6%	4%	2%

 

 

Hi folks just finished the last tank of e5 returned 315 mls on 63 ltrs. Only diff was ac off al other parameters kept the same. My conclusion is the extra performance advantage using e5 outways the cost while getting piece of mind regarding the mechanics. If I find any problems in the future I will let you know.

Mike

[Rojie]

1 hour ago, Mike Matts said:

Hi folks just finished the last tank of e5 returned 315 mls on 63 ltrs. Only diff was ac off al other parameters kept the same. My conclusion is the extra performance advantage using e5 outways the cost while getting piece of mind regarding the mechanics. If I find any problems in the future I will let you know.

Mike

 

22.5 mpg, sounds a little low to me, but it depends on the route I suppose.

[Teekay]

On 1/8/2022 at 4:01 PM, Mike Matts said:

Hi folks

just done a rough test on mpg,filled up on e10 and returned 280 miles on a full tank ie 63 ltrs .Then using e5 same criteria got 320 miles this I believe saved me £8.30 on price comparison ie e10 £1.38,e5 £1.43. This was all done with ac on, driving normally keeping more or less to same routes, doing the same again to compare but with the benefits of e5 this would a no brainier. Any one done the same?..

amazing bit of research 👍 thanks 

[AlfAlphard]

Just been reading through all your posts. Very good research you have all done. Based on that and the safety factor of the old fuel E5. I will be sticking to E5 fuel. Thanks for sharing.

[Lucky87]

Supreme Unleaded - 33.2 Litres to travel 268 KM
8.07KM (5.01 Miles) / 1 Litre          0.12 Litres / 1 KM        0.2 Litres / 1 Mile
(£0.35/mile  at £1.759 Litre)
 
Regular Unleaded - 60.9 Litres to travel 272 KM
4.47KM (2.78 Miles) / 1 Litre           0.22 Litres / 1 KM        0.36 Litres / 1 Mile
(£0.58/mile  at £1.619 Litre)  

 

This was in a 2.4 Litre 2004 Alphard.  Huge saving using the Supreme Unleaded over regular.

[Teekay]

the fuel seller is? Esso?

Edited May 11, 2022 by Teekay

[Lucky87]

Yes this was Esso Supreme fuel.  Texaco regular fuel.  Have now filled the tank with Texaco supreme and will report back results.

[Geralt]

2 hours ago, Lucky87 said:

Supreme Unleaded - 33.2 Litres to travel 268 KM
8.07KM (5.01 Miles) / 1 Litre          0.12 Litres / 1 KM        0.2 Litres / 1 Mile
(£0.35/mile  at £1.759 Litre)
 
Regular Unleaded - 60.9 Litres to travel 272 KM
4.47KM (2.78 Miles) / 1 Litre           0.22 Litres / 1 KM        0.36 Litres / 1 Mile
(£0.58/mile  at £1.619 Litre)  

 

This was in a 2.4 Litre 2004 Alphard.  Huge saving using the Supreme Unleaded over regular.

You get almost double the fuel economy with the E5? Are you sure about those numbers?

[Geralt]

3 hours ago, Lucky87 said:

Supreme Unleaded - 33.2 Litres to travel 268 KM
8.07KM (5.01 Miles) / 1 Litre          0.12 Litres / 1 KM        0.2 Litres / 1 Mile
(£0.35/mile  at £1.759 Litre)
 
Regular Unleaded - 60.9 Litres to travel 272 KM
4.47KM (2.78 Miles) / 1 Litre           0.22 Litres / 1 KM        0.36 Litres / 1 Mile
(£0.58/mile  at £1.619 Litre)  

 

This was in a 2.4 Litre 2004 Alphard.  Huge saving using the Supreme Unleaded over regular.

I forgot to say thank you for posting your results.

[Lucky87]

9 hours ago, Geralt said:

You get almost double the fuel economy with the E5? Are you sure about those numbers?

 

9 hours ago, Geralt said:

I forgot to say thank you for posting your results.

I was as surprised as you are.

 

Method was:
I collected the vehicle from seller on 12th April and filled the tank from empty to the brim with the supreme fuel which cost me £107 Approx. I recorded the mileage (km) at the filling station. 
 

When the tank was between a third and a half full I topped it up (to the brim again) with 33.2 litres of the low grade fuel. (The km had gone up by 268km) Therefore indicating I had used 33.2 litres of the E5 since filling up the first time. 

 

I then used the second batch of fuel (which would have been a mix of the two - roughly 60% E10 to 40% E5)

 

I then filled up the vehicle a third time, this time when the light came on the vehicle took 60.9 litres to refill and I had driven a further 272km since fill up number 2. 
 

I was very surprised by the results, I did use the air con slightly more in the second period and I was driving more frequent short journeys as opposed to the first time.  
 

I drive minibuses frequently as part of my job and have been trained to be very light footed on the gas/brakes. My style of driving could be described as a snail on Valium.

 

This being said I really noticed the difference between the two fuels, the vehicle purred and drove beautifully on the supreme, it felt like acceleration was slightly more erratic and the engine felt like it wasn’t as smooth on the E10. 

I have now refuelled with E5 and will repeat the process.  I am unsure if Esso in Cornwall sell 97 Octane or 99 Octane fuel but whatever it was it ran beautifully. 
 

This third time I filled up with 97 Octane E5 from Texaco. Unfortunately the closest Esso from where I live is 25 miles away.  I will definitely fill up there again if I am in that area though. 

[Rojie]

29 minutes ago, Lucky87 said:

 

I was as surprised as you are.

 

Method was:
I collected the vehicle from seller on 12th April and filled the tank from empty to the brim with the supreme fuel which cost me £107 Approx. I recorded the mileage (km) at the filling station. 
 

When the tank was between a third and a half full I topped it up (to the brim again) with 33.2 litres of the low grade fuel. (The km had gone up by 268km) Therefore indicating I had used 33.2 litres of the E5 since filling up the first time. 

 

I then used the second batch of fuel (which would have been a mix of the two - roughly 60% E10 to 40% E5)

 

I then filled up the vehicle a third time, this time when the light came on the vehicle took 60.9 litres to refill and I had driven a further 272km since fill up number 2. 
 

I was very surprised by the results, I did use the air con slightly more in the second period and I was driving more frequent short journeys as opposed to the first time.  
 

I drive minibuses frequently as part of my job and have been trained to be very light footed on the gas/brakes. My style of driving could be described as a snail on Valium.

 

This being said I really noticed the difference between the two fuels, the vehicle purred and drove beautifully on the supreme, it felt like acceleration was slightly more erratic and the engine felt like it wasn’t as smooth on the E10. 

I have now refuelled with E5 and will repeat the process.  I am unsure if Esso in Cornwall sell 97 Octane or 99 Octane fuel but whatever it was it ran beautifully. 
 

This third time I filled up with 97 Octane E5 from Texaco. Unfortunately the closest Esso from where I live is 25 miles away.  I will definitely fill up there again if I am in that area though. 

 

Small point for your awareness.

As I have previously posted elsewhere on the Forum, most E5 sold in England has no ethanol.

However, almost certainly, Cornish E5 does !

[Geralt]

On 5/12/2022 at 8:40 AM, Lucky87 said:

 

I was as surprised as you are.

 

Method was:
I collected the vehicle from seller on 12th April and filled the tank from empty to the brim with the supreme fuel which cost me £107 Approx. I recorded the mileage (km) at the filling station. 
 

When the tank was between a third and a half full I topped it up (to the brim again) with 33.2 litres of the low grade fuel. (The km had gone up by 268km) Therefore indicating I had used 33.2 litres of the E5 since filling up the first time. 

 

I then used the second batch of fuel (which would have been a mix of the two - roughly 60% E10 to 40% E5)

 

I then filled up the vehicle a third time, this time when the light came on the vehicle took 60.9 litres to refill and I had driven a further 272km since fill up number 2. 
 

I was very surprised by the results, I did use the air con slightly more in the second period and I was driving more frequent short journeys as opposed to the first time.  
 

I drive minibuses frequently as part of my job and have been trained to be very light footed on the gas/brakes. My style of driving could be described as a snail on Valium.

 

This being said I really noticed the difference between the two fuels, the vehicle purred and drove beautifully on the supreme, it felt like acceleration was slightly more erratic and the engine felt like it wasn’t as smooth on the E10. 

I have now refuelled with E5 and will repeat the process.  I am unsure if Esso in Cornwall sell 97 Octane or 99 Octane fuel but whatever it was it ran beautifully. 
 

This third time I filled up with 97 Octane E5 from Texaco. Unfortunately the closest Esso from where I live is 25 miles away.  I will definitely fill up there again if I am in that area though. 

Many thanks for providing your method.