Poor quality LPG

[pcous]

HI all,

We had an LPG conversion to our Alphard about 4 years ago. All has run well, but recently we had acceleration/deceleration 'stuttering' problems on LPG, which didn't occur when using the vehicle on petrol. Our local LPG guy said this has become common in this region and, from his research, he believed that LPG supplies across Northern England have been contaminated for several months, which appears to relate to a shipment into Immingham docks. LPG supplies to the Midlands and the South do not appear to have been affected - confirmation that it is, in fact, grim up North! (maybe a tad overdramatic - actually, he said that Scotland is also unaffected...)

As it was explained to me, it appears that dirty LPG results in the gas regulator becoming fouled up, the grime being deposited when the liquid LPG turns to gas. In turn this affects the smooth supply of gas to the engine injecters, and stuttering problems. We've had our gas regulator cleaned out and currently trying to tweak the 'trim' levels for the gas-air ratio to regain smooth running.

Anyone else from this region experiencing problems with LPG?

[Alphard Club]

Not doubting your fitter but have you asked the same question to other fitters around your area? just to confirm this?

[pcous]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I spoke to a second fitter who confirmed that LPG in the region has been dirty. The first LPG converter has a large number of taxi drivers as customers, he'd had seen the problem occurring in a range of vehicles, which alerted him to it being a general problem rather than for specific vehicles. The second fitter agreed that local LPG was dirty, but wasn't able to confirm why (see above post). The issue for vehicles running on LPG, as I understand it, is that there's a gradual build-up of grime in the gas regulator, so it takes time before it becomes evident. Also, there's no way of knowing how long this stock will last, so how long it will be supplied to forecourt pumps in the region...  

[Scott Burton]

I have an Alphard which has a Prins LPG system. Everything was fine until a few months ago when it started to run rough and then cutting out. I contacted my garage who said it was due to poor quality LPG and they’d asked other customers to contact 

 

Mike.Chapman@liquidgasuk.org

 

to log our concerns. The HSE are investigating and until then I need to run on petrol. Frustrating and costly. People will be filing for compensation. I’m based in the West Midlands.

[pcous]

Hi Scott,

 

Interesting to hear that the West Midlands are also affected by poor quality LPG, although it will be frustrating for you of course. Cleaning out the gas regulator improved the general running, but it still stuttered on acceleration and, curiously, on minimal deceleration (eg. when you lift your foot slightly to maintain speed during motorway driving). I assume the gas regulator will slowly gunge up again until the problem's resolved.

 

In the meantime, I'll contact Mike Chapman...

[pcous]

Hi all,

I contacted Mike Chapman at liquidgasuk.org, as Scott said his garage had suggested. Mike sent a summary (see attached) and gave permission for it to be published on this forum. He highlighted that the issue of poor quality LPG affects only the Midlands and North of England. The summary indicates that the Health & Safety Executive (HSE) are still trying to identify what caused the contamination and it doesn't say whether they identified the source, so our local LPG guy's deduction that it was a shipment into Immingham can't be confirmed, and remains a 'rumour' or educated guess....

For our Alphard, the problem of acceleration and deceleration 'stutter' hasn't been resolved since having the gas regulator cleaned out, so the next step is to clean out the throttle body, to see if deposits are affecting the gas-air mix. Hopefully we'll end up with a clean(er) system before starting to travel further afield once again in the Spring. Mike Chapman said he'd put me on the mailing list, so I'll post any updates that I receive.

 

Incidentally, do any of our Alphard afficiandos know whether there's a single or two throttle bodies for the 3.0L V6 engine?

Propane Quality Issues - LGUK.pdf

[Rohail]

Hi,

 

I am from West Yorkshire, I have a Skoda Octavia with prins system.

 

This issue has been going on for over a year now and looks like there is no fix at moment.

 

Every few weeks I have to go to local lpg garage and get the gas regulator cleaned.

 

At some point it does contaminate the Injectors which also need cleaning or replacing.

 

 

[Rojie]

10 hours ago, Rohail said:

Hi,

 

I am from West Yorkshire, I have a Skoda Octavia with prins system.

 

This issue has been going on for over a year now and looks like there is no fix at moment.

 

Every few weeks I have to go to local lpg garage and get the gas regulator cleaned.

 

At some point it does contaminate the Injectors which also need cleaning or replacing.

 

 

 

Hello,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

[pcous]

Hi all,

By way of update, we had the throttle body cleaned to deal with the problem of our Alphard stuttering on acceleration and also on minimal deceleration (eg. when you lift your foot slightly to reduce speed during motorway driving). This only happened when using LPG, not petrol. Our LPG guy suspected the problem was carbon deposits which built up around the rim of the butterfly valve in the throttle body (which opens/closes to control air intake and hence change the fuel-air mix to the cylinders). So, this affected LPG ignition but not petrol because the LPG system is more sensitive to any ignition issues. Has now been cleaned and there's a significant improvement - let's hope it's a job that won't need repeating...

Meanwhile, no update yet from Mike Chapman at liquidgasuk.org about poor-quality LPG in some parts of the country, or the HSE investigation.

[BigNev]

Hi guys!

Hope everyone is well!

I'm a newbie here, we are shopping for an Alphard but not got one just yet!

But we do have 2 cars on LPG - a Chrysler Grand Voyager, family bus, 2005, 3.3 V6 that's been on gas for 9 years, which is the one which is being replaced.

And a Subaru Outback, also 2005, 3.0 H6 (flat 6) that one's only been on gas for 2 years, had it for 5.

Both are BRC systems. Our previous Voyager had an LPG TECH system, the BRC do not seem particularly any better, despite the extra cost.

We are South Manchester, Stockport, and predominantly get our LPG from Cheshire Gas.

With my fingers crossed, up to now not had problems, but I have just changed the 2 filters on the Subaru, engine bay solenoid assembly liquid filter which did look a bit dirty for only 13,000 miles, and the vapour filter between the evaporator and injectors, which is a sealed unit.

I think the evaporator - heats & evaporates the liquid into vapour - is what was referred to as the regulator - but the pressure regulator is on the tank, to regulate the stored pressure down, to then send it to the evaporator at the front.

Anyways, there is clearly a problem with dirty gas that we need to watch out for!

I'll be following this post!

Cheers guys and girls!

Nev