Appropriate use of parking brake.

[PalePisces90]

Apologies in advance if this question demonstrates my ignorance (I have only owned an Alphie for a few weeks).

 

Recently, I stopped at a set of traffic lights on a gentle incline/slope.

 

Having slipped the gearbox into neutral, I applied the parking brake only to find that when I took my other foot off the general brake pedal, the car was no longer secured and started to roll backwards immediately.

 

The car had been MOT'd after being imported earlier in the summer this year and there no were advisories of any kind. With my other vehicle, a manual 09 Toyota Yaris, any maladjustment of the handbrake is always picked up on.  

 

Having only driven manual transmissions previously, have I misunderstood the function of the Alphard's parking brake? Is it only intended to be used in conjunction with gearbox being in 'Park' and not to secure the car in place on its own? 

 

Any help much appreciated! 🤪

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by PalePisces90

[Rojie]

11 hours ago, PalePisces90 said:

Apologies in advance if this question demonstrates my ignorance (I have only owned an Alphie for a few weeks).

 

Recently, I stopped at a set of traffic lights on a gentle incline/slope.

 

Having slipped the gearbox into neutral, I applied the parking brake only to find that when I took my other foot off the general brake pedal, the car was no longer secured and started to roll backwards immediately.

 

The car had been MOT'd after being imported earlier in the summer this year and there no were advisories of any kind. With my other vehicle, a manual 09 Toyota Yaris, any maladjustment of the handbrake is always picked up on.  

 

Having only driven manual transmissions previously, have I misunderstood the function of the Alphard's parking brake? Is it only intended to be used in conjunction with gearbox being in 'Park' and not to secure the car in place on its own? 

 

Any help much appreciated! 🤪

 

 

 

Hello George,

 

I have been driving automatics, and manuals, daily for close to 50 years; and some would say still learning !

The techniques are different.

 

Hopefully, the DVSA isn't reading this.

 

Having lived in the US I did have significant experience of the footbrake version of a handbrake !

But it is a brake intended for parking. Whereas, IMHO, the handbrake is more designed  for hill starts.

Even so, I have my own technique in the Alphie .

 

Unless on a very steep hill, and expecting to wait for a long time, I would hold the van on the throttle.

If you hold it on the brake it will roll back (when you remove your right foot from it.

You can use your left foot on the brake, but that will require some practice.

I would not change to neutral, and definitely not go into park which will complicate things even more.

I would let the engine torque hold the vehicle.

There is, after all, no clutch to burn out.

It does require a gentle driving style and a little practice; but is a smoother equivalent of taking off on a hill in a manual.

 

When in Park, automatics insert a pin through the gearbox, literally, to lock the transmission.

This is why most automatics 'settle back or forward' when you shift into park.

 

I have little doubt this technique would not meet with the approval of the DVSA or driving instructors/examiners.

 

I also expect other Alphie drivers to have other techniques.

 

Finally, As a newbie to driving autos concentrate on keeping your left foot on the floor.

You do not want to be creating lots of excitement behind you by inadvertently stomping on either brake peddle with your left foot.

 

Happy Alpharding

 

 

 

[Chris.ac]

how many 'clicks' did you press it down?, mine holds fine.

[Carrera1]

It requires a good push down to fully engage 

I only use it when actually parking up .

At lights I always leave an automatic in drive  and just hold it on foot brake 

no need to knock it into neutral 

this is only mh opinion others may disagree 😎

[David Jones]

My hand brake wouldn’t work on slopes , my garage changed the break shoes and it did the job. Hill starts are are an art form in an alphie. Engage accelerator and then release footbrake button. Hope this helps.

[Chajoma]

On any gradient, I just hold the car in place using the foot brake. I leave it in drive - only manuals need to be put into neutral. When I want to pull away, I just move my foot to the accelerator. It doesn't roll back.

 

First time you do it is a bit scary so try it when there is no one behind you.

[GB57]

Here's my 2p worth ! When driving an automatic and coming to a temporary stop, it is not necessary to take the transmission out of drive, just apply the footbrake until you are ready to go again. This reduces wear on the transmission. When about to set off again on an uphill section , SWIFTLY move your foot from the foot brake to the accelerator and apply a few revs. No rolling back occurs when done with confidence.

The transmission has a pawl which engages on selecting PARK, but this should not be used as a brake, and PARK should really only be selected AFTER you have applied the hand(foot)brake. There is is a risk of expensive damage in an auto transmission if you abuse the PARK facility. If you don't believe me, check out a few Scotty Kilmer videos on YouTube. He knows a think or two about cars, and Toyota in particular. 

[Martylew]

Just to clarify the handbrake requirements for manual and automatic for mot and legal are identical. If your handbrake isn’t holding when depressed then it’s faulty and needs repairing. As handbrakes on automatics are usually used less often than a manual the brake friction lining can become more brittle. You could try applying the parking brake when driving (in a straight line) for about 30 seconds, then sometime later see if the parking brake works more efficiently.

[PalePisces90]

Thank you for all the responses so far.

 

Lots of food for thought on driving technique as well as vehicle maintenance.

 

Rojie, in particular, I appreciate you taking the time to give such a comprehensive response.

 

 

 

[New Girl]

Hi I agree with Rojie.Just a very gentle touch to the accelerator is all you need to do.This obviously applies only when you have to stop for a short time ie traffic lights. Good luck you will love your new Alphard

[Gillibanana]

Having not driven an automatic before & find my Alphard very different from anything I have driven before I found this topic extremely useful - Thankyou 😊

[Gareth Marchant]

As a Driving Instructor, and soon to be Alphard owner, I thought I'd add my twopenneth worth to the 'use of handbrake' debate (although I concede I mostly teach in a manual). Two thoughts occur to me:

1. The foot operated 'handbrake' should hold the car still when applied, regardless of the gear selection and the gradient.  If it isn't, there is either a fault with the braking system or an adjustment required. 

 

2. Best practice is to apply the handbrake when stationary and waiting before moving away again (as opposed to a short pause before moving off).  This provides additional security against the risks of being pushed forward in a rear end shunt (particularly if it makes you 'jump') and prevents blinding following drivers at night if holding on the footbrake in traffic. Going into neutral is again best practice if waiting for an extended period (such as at traffic lights). 

I stress my deliberate use of "best practice" here; for newly qualified drivers becoming experienced drivers, one of the first skills to be ditched in both manuals and automatics is the effective use of the handbrake.  Particularly with an automatic, as you don't have to use the handbrake as the vehicle will hold on the footbrake, automatically engages the drive and there is no clutch to control, people naturally take the path of least resistance and eventually only use it when they park. When I am doing driver assessments for qualified drivers, I can spot the auto drivers straight away -  footbrake on permanently when stopped, no handbrake, unless parked up. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Gareth Marchant

[Rojie]

12 hours ago, Gareth Marchant said:

As a Driving Instructor, and soon to be Alphard owner, I thought I'd add my twopenneth worth to the 'use of handbrake' debate (although I concede I mostly teach in a manual). Two thoughts occur to me:

1. The foot operated 'handbrake' should hold the car still when applied, regardless of the gear selection and the gradient.  If it isn't, there is either a fault with the braking system or an adjustment required. 

 

2. Best practice is to apply the handbrake when stationary and waiting before moving away again (as opposed to a short pause before moving off).  This provides additional security against the risks of being pushed forward in a rear end shunt (particularly if it makes you 'jump') and prevents blinding following drivers at night if holding on the footbrake in traffic. Going into neutral is again best practice if waiting for an extended period (such as at traffic lights). 

I stress my deliberate use of "best practice" here; for newly qualified drivers becoming experienced drivers, one of the first skills to be ditched in both manuals and automatics is the effective use of the handbrake.  Particularly with an automatic, as you don't have to use the handbrake as the vehicle will hold on the footbrake, automatically engages the drive and there is no clutch to control, people naturally take the path of least resistance and eventually only use it when they park. When I am doing driver assessments for qualified drivers, I can spot the auto drivers straight away -  footbrake on permanently when stopped, no handbrake, unless parked up. 

 

Well put Gareth. I agree.

 

I would question the DVSA view that a handbrake will help if rear ended.

In a rear end the rear tends to lift, thereby reducing the effectiveness of the handbrake, but it is locked on.

Applying the footbrake applies braking to all wheels, whereas the handbrake is just two.

Additionally, the front brakes are more important in stopping a car, than the rear. However.

 

I also confess, when driving manuals, I sit with the footbrake applied; even on hill starts. Not in gear, and not riding the clutch.

On a hill start I engage the handbrake momentarily, keeping the button depressed so as not to lock it, only when about to move off.

 

Despite all these bad habits, some years ago I passed my Driving Examiners test.

 

[Gareth Marchant]

2 minutes ago, Rojie said:

Despite all these bad habits, some years ago I passed my Driving Examiners test.

Thanks for your response, Rojie. Small world! 

A couple of clarifications - I am careful not to use the term “bad habits”; there are often just different approaches to achieving similar outcomes. I also gave my own view, I did not and do not claim it to be that of the DVSA. The rationale I used relates to the potential response of the the driver when rear ended. - if they get a significant fright, they might involuntarily lift off the brake, but it is all just thinking about risk minimisation. As with so many things, there might not be this consequence and it becomes hypothesis. If I am misguided in my thinking, I am always open to finding out. Your comments around four wheels braked versus two make absolute sense as long as the footbrake continues to be applied. 

Are you still an Examiner?  

[Rojie]

1 hour ago, Gareth Marchant said:

Thanks for your response, Rojie. Small world! 

A couple of clarifications - I am careful not to use the term “bad habits”; there are often just different approaches to achieving similar outcomes. I also gave my own view, I did not and do not claim it to be that of the DVSA. The rationale I used relates to the potential response of the the driver when rear ended. - if they get a significant fright, they might involuntarily lift off the brake, but it is all just thinking about risk minimisation. As with so many things, there might not be this consequence and it becomes hypothesis. If I am misguided in my thinking, I am always open to finding out. Your comments around four wheels braked versus two make absolute sense as long as the footbrake continues to be applied. 

Are you still an Examiner?  

 

Yes, the lifting off the footbrake is also a point of interest.

 

I have no statistics to support my view; but many drivers involved in a minor rear end will brace themselves against the footbrake and steering wheel autonomically.

Often, but not of course always, the driver will be aware that the rear impact will occur; as they themselves just performed a sudden or emergency braking action.

 

I guess the real point is that, ignoring outlandish bad practice, drivers should use whichever technique that provides most control of the vehicle.

Stalling at a junction can, sometimes, create the very minir accident we all hope to avoid.

 

I confess that many, many years ago I rear ended a car at a roundabout.

They drove off, I looked to see if it was clear and drove off too.

They had changed their mind and stopped !

 

I have been retired many years now,