Transmission fluid - amount to replace

[Dave]

Alphard G - 2006, 2.4, front wheel drive

 

I've just drained my transmission fluid through the sump plug (I've had a suspicion that there might not be enough in there and was curious to see what came out).

 

Just under 2 litres has come out.  From other discussions here I gather that there might be 4L remaining in the torque converter (but how would anyone know?  Perhaps this is low, too).

 

I'm proposing to add 4L but as above, this might not be enough.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Dave

[Geralt]

On 6/17/2023 at 11:28 AM, Dave said:

I've had a suspicion that there might not be enough in there

Doesn't it have a dipstick to check the level?

[Dave]

3 hours ago, Geralt said:

Doesn't it have a dipstick to check the level?

 

It had a leak from the cooler pipes which is why I thought the level might be low.  I've found the dipstick to be hard to interpret as it has always shown the same level whether the engine is hot or cold.  This makes no sense to me but I've been unable to get to the bottom of it.

 

The whole thing is very frustrating.  All I want to do is to put the right amount of fluid in and naturally I'm worried about overfilling due to what I've read in other conversations here.

 

[Geralt]

I'm amazed the volume change with temperature is noticeable.

 

What is your transmission code? Mine starts with a U. Maybe Google that for maintenance info.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Geralt

[PaulE]

This is off the Toyota Club Net- hope it helps. 

 

Toyota-Club.Net - Fluids & capacities - Alphard 10 (2002-2008)

 

 

Quote

 

 

[Dave]

I've been meaning to post this update for the last year having finally got to the bottom of what the dipstick was telling me:

 

This is how to interpret/take the transmission dipstick readings (2 dipstick marks, 3 scenarios):

 

1.  Engine running but not warmed up:  dipstick should read cold

 

2. Engine running and warm:  dipstick should read warm

 

3. Engine cold and not running: dipstick should read above the warm mark

 

Confusion arose from my initial belief that the cold mark on the dipstick meant scenario 3, above.  (Leaving aside other oddities caused by the leak and low levels).  I couldn't understand why a cold, non-running engine was giving a reading of hotter than warm.   

[Catweazle]

How much did you put in Dave?

If there's supposed to be around 8 litres and you removed 2, did it need 6?

[Gamith]

I thought I would check the levels of the two dipsticks today, both on a cold engine, and, while I am happy with the engine oil level the other one (gearbox I assume) is a bit more difficult to read. 

 

Engine dipstick - engine cold.

 

Transmission dipstick - cold.

There are 4 marks, two at the 'low' and two at the 'full'

 

I take it for granted that I should have warmed up both (then leaving for at least 5 mins) before taking the reading but my question is more about what I should expect. Strangely I can't find any info in the manual for this dipstick.

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

[BigNev]

Hi @Gamith

Did you know that the engine has to be running when checking the auto transmission fluid level?

Run though all gear positions, slowly, a couple of times, then check the level. The two dip stick marks are minimun and maximum, for hot and cold, same as for engine oil. 

The accurate one is the hot one.

Yes there is that much expansion when it's hot!!

Cheers fellas!

[Gamith]

>Did you know that the engine has to be running when checking the auto transmission fluid leve

No, but I assumed it was a little more complicated so I was fishing for some help - thank you Neville

 

So am I correct in assuming that:

    when cold the level should be no less than (1) and no greater than (3)

    when hot the level should be no less than (2) and no greater than (4)

----v---v------------------------------v---v--------------------------

|      1    2                                                  3     4                                       handle -->

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

?

And what is considered a good 'run' to get the transmission up to temperature? I am hoping that 10 to 20 mins of fairly 'on the level' driving would be enough, but I would be interested in hearing peoples opinions.

 

Cheers all.

[BigNev]

Hi Paul!

You're absolutely welcome!

It is strange the way it's done, bemused me when I first discovered it many moons ago!

On the later versions it is indeed far more difficult, involving reading fluid temperatures and an "overflow" fluid height tube in the bottom of the transmission pan, bit of an unnecessary change in my grumpy opinion!

But on a traditional one, way better!

 

The COLD level reads between 1 and 2 for min / max, and HOT is between 3 and 4 for min / max again.

 

Yep, I would agree with you that a 20 minute drive, at this time of year and ambient temperature, should have the fluid up to normal working temperature.

Cheers, Nev

[Clutha]

Having a job finding a place to change trans. oil (Glasgow North)

Recommended auto trans. specialist who said no! WTF.

Local garage said yes, then not keen & recommended the specialist 🙄

What could be the issue apart from time needed to pump oil in?

[Gamith]

>The COLD level reads between 1 and 2 for min / max, and HOT is between 3 and 4 for min / max again.

Wow - those are really tight limits and that is, indeed, a lot of expansion!

 

I have done a 'cold' check already but the picture shoes the 'level' was above 4, so that would indicate that either the transmission is seriously over-filled, or the dip stick is picking up a lot of oil on it's journey into and out of the dip tube. 

[BigNev]

Hi Gordon!

I really can't think why they are concerned about the job, it's not as difficult as it is on the later ones, just standard work, and I am not a professional mechanic! Shame you're a bit too far away, or I'd come and give you a hand to do the job yourself!

[BigNev]

Hi Paul!

Yes, indeed, on the levels and limits!

On the first cold reading you did, was the engine running?

If not that will explain why it's so high!

Edited yesterday at 07:18 PM by BigNev
Spelling 😄

[Gamith]

2 hours ago, BigNev said:

Hi Paul!

Yes, indeed, on the levels and limits!

On the first cold reading you did, was the engine running?

If not that will explain why it's so high!

>On the first cold reading you did, was the engine running?

No, it had been cold for sometime - I think I used it the day before. I did the engine dip stick and then the transmission. hence my surprise at the level. If I get a chance tomorrow I will do another dip test and then take it for a drive and see what the reading is after that.

[BigNev]

Ah, the test is only valid with the engine running, cold or hot.

So that the fluid is circulating through the torque converter, not sat at the bottom of the auto box. 

[Gamith]

48 minutes ago, BigNev said:

Ah, the test is only valid with the engine running, cold or hot.

So that the fluid is circulating through the torque converter, not sat at the bottom of the auto box. 

Ok, that makes sense and is a bit of a relief. Hopefully a running test will clarify.

 

[Gamith]

Ok, so the first picture (Cold) was taken when the engine had been running for a minute or so, but the vehicle had not been moved - neither had the gear stick I now realise. It looks to be a little low though.

 

The second (Hot) was after I had driven around a bit (local dump, Screwfix, Tesco and back home, an hour all told) so it should have been nice and warm. Unfortunately it was really hard to make out an actual level as there was oil spread out along the whole section. This is the best of a bunch of pictures.

 

So I'm not sure whether I need to do anything really - the car drives Ok, I could try topping it up, though how much would be the question. Or I could see about draining and refilling the transmission, which sounds like a pain.

 

Maybe a second go is called for. 

[BigNev]

Yep it is pretty difficult make out clearly hey. 

Give it another try, may get a clearer line if you're lucky!

This is the wording from my Subaru handbook, which has a standard automatic transmission and dipstick -

 

1 - Drive the vehicle several miles to raise the temperature of the transmission fluid up to normal operating temperature; 70 to 80degress C is normal (on my Subaru!)

2 - Park the vehicle on a level surface and set the parking brake.

3 - First shift the selector lever in each position. Then shift it in the "P" position, and run the engine at idle speed.

4 - Pull out the dipstick and check the level on the gauge. If it is below the lower level on the "HOT" range, add the recommended automatic transmission fluid up to the upper level.

 

I'll add a picture of the page too!

It says although it can be checked cold, Subaru recommend checking when the fluid is at operating temperature.  As have every automatic vehicle I've had.

Edited 7 hours ago by BigNev

[BigNev]